Teach-Yourself-As-You-Go: An Interview with (the) Watershed

Formed in 1987, Watershed was widely considered to be Hamilton’s premiere band from the late ‘80s until their demise in late 1991, being the leaders of one of the Hamilton underground’s peak periods. The band had some significant successes, such as having their song ‘Spark’ included on the 1991 Flying Nun compilation Freak the Sheep, supporting The Chills during their Submarine Bells release tour, including at the Auckland Town Hall, and they also gained support slots for Straitjacket Fits, The Clean and the UK’s Pop Will Eat Itself. Their success opened doors for other Hamilton bands, who up until this time were largely ignored by Auckland student radio station BFM. In 1991 they released the 5-song cassette ‘Jeanna - an Aeroplane’, and posthumously had the track ‘Take This That Way’ included on the Hamilton music compilation Discordia Concors in 1993 - a slice of pop perfection that provided an exceptionally strong compilation opener.

We spoke with guitarist and lead singer Marcus MacRury [with some additions from Christopher Barnett, Kent Ericksen and Alan Deare] ahead of their gig at the Contact 50th party about the band’s greatest successes, interpersonal tensions, playing in Motueka, what Contact meant to them… and more!

Watershed from 'Jeanna - An Aeroplane' cassette, 1991

HUP: What would you rate as Watershed’s greatest success, or what are your favourite memories, from the time you were together?
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Marcus:  Aside from wangling our way on to a Flying Nun Vinyl compilation release [Freak the Sheep Vol. 1] we also managed to do an Orientation Tour - which I think involved Palmerston North, Motueka, Otago University, Wellington and New Plymouth.  We borrowed a van from Ross Holloway [Alchemist], loaded it with our music gear and my horrible, raw chunk-of-foam double mattress on top of the gear, picked up Steve Gray [Parkers and Frybrain guitarist] and David Sutcliffe [aka Captain Good-vibes] and ripped around the North and South Islands playing music at some fun venues.  We doubled up with an Auckland-based band called The Psycho Daisies [Full-on Garage Punk influenced band] who injected a huge amount of rock ’n roll to the tour.  In Dunedin we noticed their sound man stank like death, and found out that he rubbed himself down with garlic to ward off bad spirits??  Shit was disturbingly rank. After the Dunedin gig at the ‘let’s get as ripped as we can’ party, he was walking around naked - having frank discussions with everyone who would listen to him about his tiny penis - with graphic, up-close demonstrations.  It was rock ’n roll - but still very, very, very weird - especially when you’re loaded.  Lots of things happened on that tour.  I remember most of them with a smile.  I sang in Motueka with a fat lip - after Kym, our manager, punched me in the mouth - the blame for which is entirely on [drummer] Jonathan Armstrong for waking him up in the van - by screaming in his face - which made me laugh - which made Kym think I’d done it and BOOM fat lip.  We also did the touristy things and jumped into the river in the Buller Gorge - where the road goes under that cliff and then had to flee from a literal tornado of over-sized, ravenous mosquitos that basically attacked us and pursued us.

We played really well at each stop - doing ourselves proud and getting good responses.  We might’ve made some money if Kent [Ericksen; guitar] hadn’t backed the van into a pole - which meant we eventually broke even after getting the van fixed up.
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Kent: I didn't recall crashing the van. Well, backing into a pole... but I do remember crashing through a mudslide on the Kaikoura section as we hurtled through the night to make the ferry, and later, driving behind Alan's station-wagon, sleep deprived as fuck as ghosts flitted in my peripheral from trees in the forest.
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HUP: How did Motueka end up on an Orientation tour?
 
Marcus: Strange place to play - but it was part and parcel of what the Psycho Daisies had organised. Two things about that gig:

We played to a somewhat confused crowd - consisting of pretty much regulars at the local pub.  So we arrogantly started playing ’Sweet Home Motueka’ to the tune of 'Sweet Home Alabama' - you know - with our high-fall-looting Hamilton superiority vibe on ten.  I think even we missed the irony of it all at that point.
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We also saw some very rock ’n roll moments from the Psycho Daisies.  One of the locals was dancing in front of them with one of those full plastic jugs you used to be able to get and he handed it to John Baker - the lead singer of the Psycho Daisies - for him to take a drink from. But instead, John spilled the entire jug of beer over his own head while not missing a word from the lyrics.  The guy who owned the beer abused hm - but also paraded the empty jug like a thing of great rock ’n roll power to behold - which it now was.  It was one of those moments that leap out at you and stay with you.  The Psycho Daisies had great songs and really put on a show.  There was a weird low-down hostility between us and them - but after playing Dunedin with them and Death Ray Cafe, they had warmed to our more understated Velvets rock ethic and we really liked their balls-out, fuck the world, California garage punk, Stooges thing.  At that age, it really was a lesson in what rock ’n roll can be.  Personally, I can’t say it was influential - and we were a very different band to them - but the whole tour just worked.

Watershed photo from Nexus, 31 July 1991

HUP: You were a guitar band, but you had a huge amount of originality. Looking back at an interview you did with Garbage magazine in 1992, not long after you split, you talked about how much effort you put in to crafting songs that sounded like no one else has written before. How would you describe the band’s sound, how did the band evolve through your existence, and how proud are you of these songs now as you revisit them leading up to the gig?
 
Marcus:  I’m not so sure our sound was entirely that original.  We had our obvious influences.  I was very much into the Flying Nun thing - where the idea was that you picked up a guitar and started writing songs from what would’ve been almost a position of naivety - so we had that going for us.  We were very much opposed to being part of the more commercial end of the spectrum.  There was a major, paradigmatic shift when I sold my crappy Ibanez semi-acoustic and bought a Musician Stingray 2 guitar - with active hum-bucking pickups in it.  The high output smashed the front end [natural valve distortion] of the amp I had - a Musician RD110 - which had a drive channel that sounded phenomenal.  So that took us from the jingle-jangle pop-song thing into the volume/distortion end of the spectrum.  Kent joined the band and our rehearsals were loud - which meant he had to crank his Fender Twin amp - causing his normally very clean amp to naturally go into overdrive/distortion - in order to compete.  Chris [Barnett; bass] had a bass amp with a disturbingly large 18-inch speaker in it and was given a US Fender Precision for his 21st birthday.  He still has it.  And Jonathan had an awesome sounding drum kit and was literally the best drummer - who could also sing - that any band could hope for - so the big sound came from that mix.  We would then jam stuff out and I’d sing something over the top of it.  Being loud meant I usually had to ‘belt’ my vocals out to be heard - which affords the music an emotional intensity you probably wouldn’t get without all those aspects coming together.  Being inspired to write my own songs at the age of sixteen - primarily by The Verlaines - meant I almost had to curate the lyrics to match what I listened to.  The lyrics from almost all of those mid-eighties Flying Nun bands still astound me. Wayne Elsey’s lyrics [of Dunedin band The Stones] are just great and I felt they were actually relevant to me - unlike most of the more popular pub-rock ‘Blue Lady’ NZ bands at the time.  I think the common thread though all those Hamilton bands was that ‘this is our own music’ and we sing about things relevant to us.  So, taking English papers at varsity, I considered the lyrics very carefully and Chris would contribute lyrics for his parts - and they were always great - in my opinion. Chris had a way of getting into the songs with his bass lines and lyrical input which always added another dimension to the music.

To be honest, we haven’t had a copy of those songs until recently.  In talking with Kent we are literally surprised by the overall quality of those songs.  I guess, when you’re that subjective - i.e. actually writing and playing those songs - is it possible to somehow be unaware of what you’re doing at the time?  Again, I think it has more to do with a basic naivety, coupled with a musical ’teach-yourself-as-you-go’ ethos.  And with quite a few years distance, we get to appraise them as they actually are. For example, Christopher’s spoken vocal towards the end of ‘Two Inches Behind The Eyes’.  Using a fake American accent to sound like some kind of totalitarian Tannoy system is totally Christopher.  He was always questioning things like subculture and politics, etc.  And knowing Chris, I know exactly what his thinking was at the time.  We were constantly either talking about drums and drummers or being stupid and amusing ourselves by speaking in fake American or Eastern European accents.  So the music was inevitably relevant to us.
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And, you know, we were angry young men.  So we were loud and sang about the less discussed aspects of life.

Chris: I hadn't listened to this music for 35? years. I particularly enjoyed Moonbuggy [which ended up appearing on the cassette 'Crazy Janet' by post-Watershed band Anaganasnagamal, comprised of Marcus, Chris and Jon]. I'm struck by how good Johnny was at dealing with all sorts of rhythms. When I wrote bass lines I was influenced by jazz, blues, funk and hip hop as well as noise rock. I'd like to think those influences made Watershed more than a jingle jangle classic Flying Nun band. That wouldn't have worked without the excellent musicians in the band who could blend that into songs. Marcus was amazing in that he always appreciated rhythm sections and would allow space for a bass player like me rather than insisting I just play follow bass, plus he is an awesome rhythm guitarist. I was always balancing complexity with serving the song, so most songs have a simple supporting linear bass line and one that is not that.

HUP: Watershed had few early lineup changes, but settled for the last couple of years into the core four of yourself (guitars and lead vocals), Chris, Kent and Jonathan. Who is coming together at the Contact gig, and when was the last time you all played together? 
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Marcus: The line-up is Marcus, Kent Ericksen, Jonathan Armstrong and Alan Deare [replacing Chris on bass], another late '80s/early '90s stalwart who started Book of Martyrs with Jonothan Armstong [and currently plays in ORBJKS], with an appearance from Gillian Eva Boyd from Hand of Glory, Emersons, and many other bands, on keys - which we are stoked about.  It’s a different band playing some songs that haven’t been played for a very long time.
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Alan: From my end Watershed and Book of Martyrs were quite entwined as we shared a drummer and went to each other's gigs, which were quite plentiful in those days. We used my Holden HD wagon to get the fellas and their gear up to a recording session in Auckland. We even swapped the New Plymouth Ampitheatre gig dates to suit Watershed's tour schedule. We were originally supporting Straitjacket Fits but swapped dates and ironically ended up supporting Bailter Space – a much better slot for Watershed. Chris and I, as bass players, often talked shop about our respective band's strengths and shortcomings. Heady days with a burgeoning music and arts scene, essentially enabled buy Contact.

 
HUP: Also in the Garbage interview, you noted how the time and effort you put into songwriting in the later months began to cause tension within the band. How long did these tensions linger and, being in the same room again, do these tensions come back to the surface, or have they all been lost in the mists of time?
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Marcus:  If you play music with anyone for long enough, you’re going to get to know those people very well.  It’s different to joining a group of motorcycle enthusiasts.  It’s a creative endeavour - and there are egos involved.  So navigating your way around your own psychology and then the psychology of others in that environment can obviously be tricky.  I was certainly very strong-willed about the musical direction at the time and would disregard songs others thought were good - which caused a fair amount of friction.  Luckily both Chris and Kent are strong willed and could get that particular oil tanker to change direction - if required. But, in general, things were fairly harmonious within that band. We had Kent - who was older, very considered and expressed his thoughts very clearly - he was very calm and anchored the band in lots of ways.  Jonny could also stop a song mid-rehearsal and say, “what about this idea”, and we’d try it.  He was also a classic Ringo drummer - out for a good time and very funny with it.  So it was a classic Beatles band.  Marcus - Paul.  Chris - John.  Kent - George.  Jonny - Ringo.  I’m not comparing us to the Beatles - but it’s quite a thing that there will *always* be some Beatlesque elements in any band.   And what resulted from that mix of personalities was some great gigs [some appallingly bad, too] and a handful of songs that we like and will be excited to play again.  We’re even working on a couple of new ones.
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Be there, or forever never get to hear them!

HUP: You are coming together to play at the Contact 50th anniversary gig. What did Contact mean to the band during your existence?

Marcus:  Without any of those elements, it would probably never have happened.  Contact 89FM played our recordings. We also announced on that station. A few doors down we had Nasrudin [Ukrainec] in charge of social events and paid by the university to do so.  We had venues at the university.  We had bigger bands to support coming to the university through Contact 89FM.  It was a good time to be in a band.  I mean, we were supposedly at university studying for our degrees - but really, we were pretty much playing in bands, going to parties and, in between those times, hopefully getting a degree along the way.

Watershed recorded their first ever two songs at the Contact 89FM studio.  We recorded part of our only release there, too. They let us use their photocopier for gig posters - free of charge.  Nexus newspaper was down the hall and would advertise gigs - again for no charge.

Those kinds of things were essential to most bands in Hamilton having a voice and they provided impossibly valuable resources for any band with the courage to play their music on a stage.


HUP: “Watershed” or “The Watershed”? The on cover of ‘Jeanna – an Aeroplane’ and on the photo inside it has a “the”, but generally I have head you referred to simply as Watershed, which is how you appear as this on the cover of Freak the Sheep and on Discordia Concors.

Marcus:  All I know the favourite slag-off name for the band was Watery Shit.  That still makes me laugh.  I overheard a private conversation to find that one out. They don’t know I know - but I know.  And they will pay.  Wankers.
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HUP: Various band members continued to leave their mark on the Hamilton music scene for a while after the bands demise, but inevitably, members of Hamilton bands tend to go off in various directions over time. Have you remained active with writing music or in other ways?

Marcus:  Here’s what I know.  Chris and I were in a band called Muldoon, in London.
 
Chris joined a full-on punk band in Wellington for a while. The Flash Harrys.  Lyrically dubious band - with songs like ‘My First Hooker’.  They supported The Exploited in Auckland. 

Chris: I played in a few other bands and have been lucky to play most of my favourite genres. I never wrote songs after Watershed though. I played in a reggae/funk/ska band called Banana Republic in 1992? Lots of bar gigs. Possibly my big shot at making it was in a grunge band in Taiwan with Subpop alumni Chris Pugh. His previous band, Swallow, had multiple releases on Subpop and they had played gigs with L7 and Hole. It was 1993/4?, so grunge was still big. We were starting to get a following in Taiwan, doing lots of media then he got imprisoned. Opps.  After that I did a year at the conservatorium of music at Massey studying jazz and trying to learn double bass. Marcus kindly invited me to play in an amateur jazz band in London. We even (mostly Marcus) did some jazz/electronica stuff. Then we went back to indie. Then I had to study and have kids. A late entry was joining the Flash Harrys on bass playing '80s inspired hard core punk about seven years ago. A couple of international supports at Whammy Bar and San Fran were highlights, then I chucked it in to surf. Got to 100 gigs so I thought I'd retire. I still love music and have learnt basic drums and very basic guitar along the way. Play some form of music most weeks. 

Marcus:  Kent has been in several bands since Watershed.  Hand of Glory, Scooter, etc.  To my knowledge, he is probably the most prolific of any of the Watershed members.

I took up trumpet, did my classical grades 1 to 8, completed an A-Level in music, then completed a B.Mus/Jazz in London.  I bought a Pro Tools recording set up way back in 2005 - so have been writing songs the whole time.

Chris: P.S., Marcus is a hot drummer now. 

I am currently part of a studio band called Window. Search ‘Understand Your Alien’ on Spotify to find it.  And a three piece in Tauranga called The False Waltons.  It’s fun.  Up for a gig in Hamilton if anyone needs a band.  Plug city.
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Jonny Beat famously joined The Chills - which everyone knows - and currently plays in a band called Hoon in Rotorua.

with Ian Duggan